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Version 1.84 in development

TH development, bug-reports, suggestions, collaboration, etc...

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Postby Steel » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:22 pm

Cool 1.82 is released.
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Postby CableCat » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:58 pm

Extract the content of THdata.mor and remake the file. This will reduce the filesize with 70MB. This is what I have been doing with all the downloads at the wiki.
Status: done

[s]Less than 2MB of new data has been introduced to THdata.mor since v1.80. Make a THpatch.mor file, which only contains the new data files. So people can keep on patching.
Status: done by me now, see: http://thehell.cablecat.dk/download

(repost) Remove the hidden and system attribute from multiplayer save games, making them visible with default settings in the Windows file manager.
Status: done
Last edited by CableCat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:57 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby Mordor » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:09 pm

Quite the contrary, senior. There will be no patching from now on. People manage to run into problems even with FR+patch system. So, it was decided to stick with FRs only, but significantly reduce release rates instead.

I will repack datafile though. For the next release.
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Postby CableCat » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:23 pm

Sounds good, less work for me :-).
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Postby Neoton » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:19 pm

Hmm are "Mini" updates not smarter because maybe a mini update make some errors so you know ok its just this this this
and when you make Big updates like 1.83 then and people start to get errors and crashes you have more work to fix or find the problem ?

And i like this mini updates :D


If im wrong correct me :)
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Postby mekamoari » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:06 pm

The problem with "Mini" updates is that Mordor made tons of them(notice the letter u in 1.81u) :lol: and missing steps in upgrading might cause problems(and for _some_ people it actually did). Like I said before, not everyone can(or is willing to) check the main site everyday for updates. And the threat of potential issues basically forced people to do this - and even worse, those who didn't know got to learn the hard way.

Of course it's easier for the developer to be able to track changes one by one, but there's also the player base to consider. And the average player might look for updates once a week or so?

EDIT: Since we're at this topic, maybe it would be a good idea to put a sticky in one(or all of the subforums) to announce what the latest version is - just to let people know? Basically, once a person has installed the game, there's no reason at all to visit the main site except to check for updates. The forum is visited much more often and can give a heads up about the latest version - besides, it's no big deal, the title would be enough.
Last edited by mekamoari on Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Mordor » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:14 pm

OK I believe the ONLY bug that is still causing gme crash is the spell of Hellfire.

I have witnessed many times how it can lead to gamecrash when it hits another player, who can block. And when the blocl is supposed to happen, game can crash. I'm not sure if it's connected to blocking, but I don't remember ever crashing when it's used against monsters, and Scouts never crashed game when being exposed to Hellfire from another player (Scouts usually wear bows and thus can't block).

Any info on this is welcome. I'll try to solve this problem ASAP.

And also if somebody notices Catacomb morphing in version 1.82+, please let me know.
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Postby Neoton » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:46 pm

Jeh i just want to help the developer nothing more!

But i got now your point :)
Maybe make Mini Updates but not this single updates where just 1-2 spezific things have changed.
Collect some fixes and then make a mini update. So your Update correct 10-15 things not 2 ;D

Positive thing of this mini updates are that people who search for a mod or something they find The Hell and see that yesterday was an update O.O
wuhu they are still on it they do something for this mod and start to play !

About the Hellfire Spell i learned it yesterday and after 9 hours of playing there was no crash at all Oo
But we have no Shield user atm. So no block at all.
We even made tests how many damage i make to them when i hit them with hellfire and no crash :)
Hope this helped a bit :>
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Postby Mordor » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:31 pm

What if I change Stone Curse so that it makes monsters immune to damage, or give them 75% damage resistance while in SC'ed form?

Tell me what you think of this.
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Postby Rhaz » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:29 pm

U forget to mention to make more monsters not immune to it to balance this.I think you should make them completely invincible,...I really like the mage player's suggestion in the mage thread(read his post many times).Anyway SC don't last that long,so it isn't a prob if SC'ed monsters are completely invincible while in SC form.
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Postby Mordor » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:34 pm

Full immunity is way easier to implement than resistance.

I didn't forget - balanicing is done AFTER the changes that made it a necessity.
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Postby Neoton » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:07 pm

I dont agree with that i play a mage and i use this skill to freeze some monsters that they cant hit me when i want to kill them ;)
if they are invul then this option goes away and i dont get it because you are a stone you are invincible eh?
why is my golem not invincible then ;D


I agree with it that they dont get so much damage but complete invincible total no go for me :>
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Postby Neoton » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:40 am

wtf you made me interest like hell now i even cant sleep >.<
still click on refresh hate you Modor ^^
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Postby Sduibek » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:41 am

Mordor wrote:What if I change Stone Curse so that it makes monsters immune to damage, or give them 75% damage resistance while in SC'ed form?

Tell me what you think of this.
Please, please, don't do this. TD made SC make monsters immune and it ruined this spell. It was so stupid I never used SC. Not "rarely", never. It takes the entire fun out of the spell. Same as making walls do no damage, it is a stupid move and needlessly takes something fun out of the game. For those who've spent years modding like TD Team maybe they forget, but in the list of Top Fun THings About Diablo1 killing monsters with walls was always there. Sure it can be cheap but it's always satisfying :) Same goes with SC. I fully agree with ghotiloki that some balancing changes need to go into SC, but making it so the monster is immune or close is IMHO not a good fix, it's really more of a compromise which means it's not an improvement. Remember different isn't better, better is better :yes:

One thing you could try is make them high resistance to all forms of damage, but to strip them of ALL Resists and Immunities from monster table (normal monsters i mean not bosses) -- so far example this would allow you to use various spells/tactics on All Immune monsters, albeit having a similar difficulty level of killing them because you're doing so much less damage. I.e. it's not simply a cheap insta-kill-trick. This would have the added bonus of increasing (somewhat) the usefulness of spells other than Elemental like ghotiloki talked about.
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Postby Neoton » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:37 am

I agree with Sduibek

when you make them immune to everyting then its a useless spell and will never be used again ...
It lands not often on monsters nearly when 10 monsters come 3 getting stoned. ( i mean monster classes ! )

Hmm still no update damn now i will go to bed ^^
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Postby Rhaz » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:18 am

Guys,You haven't read ghotiloki's post...this will make great strat for making SC'ed monsters as a "wall" to block other monsters or to buy you time killing other monsters as a mage,because at the moment too many monsters are immune to SC.Remove immunes+making invincible on SC'ed monsters is a great balance.Of course you think it sux because maybe you didn't notice just how many monsters are currently immune to SC,even in horror mode.
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Postby Neoton » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:18 pm

Yes atm i play in horror mode and there are immune monsters too that suckz balls but dunno i dont think that this will grow in other difficultys or im wrong?
but when you now write that the number of immune monsters crow then this spell is useless in other difficultys then horror mode :(

But i still think total immune suckz maybe high resistant against damage but total no thats stupid :(
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Postby Mordor » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:10 pm

Dragon decided to improve Fuco's patch to get rid of the 'converter' exe.

If you didn't upgrade to 1.82d yet. I suggest you wait until the new patch (1.82e?) and not update to 1.82d.

Stay tuned.
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Postby CableCat » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:41 pm

Mordor wrote:Dragon decided to improve Fuco's patch to get rid of the 'converter' exe.

If you didn't upgrade to 1.82d yet. I suggest you wait until the new patch (1.82e?) and not update to 1.82d.


OK, I will not update the wiki download yet then.

You should put this information on the download page too.
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Postby Sduibek » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:41 am

Why does it seem the new versions focus on simply gameplay changes instead of fixing bugs? There are a vast number of bugs, some from D1/HF, many from TH itself, and very very few of them are getting fixed in the recent updates. It seems only "major" bugs and everything else gets ignored. Also what about implementing the ideas people are posting in the Suggestions thread?
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Postby Mordor » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:08 am

Everything takes time. Major bugs are just main concern, something of higher priority.

Fixing just one bug can take a month. Fixing duping took ~2 years.

You get the idea?
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Postby Rhaz » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:20 pm

Yup,that is another reason why i prefer total invincible for SC as mordor says its easier to be implemented.So the developers can actually save time and use it for other areas of the mod.
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Postby Mordor » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:55 pm

1.82e is being uploaded atm

when you see changelog, consult this file for details
http://thehellmod.ucoz.ru/Downloads/_AFFIX.xls

all MP people can now delete special converter exe from 1.82d
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Postby CableCat » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:16 am

Version 1.82e can now be downloaded from the wiki.
The page about save files has been updated.
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Postby Neoton » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:39 am

Everything Went well good update :)
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Postby CableCat » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:37 am

Mordor wrote:Cat, did you receive new music track from 3.6 torrent?


No... but a search revealed it to be here: http://thehellmod.ucoz.ru/Downloads/Mus ... .6.rar.rar
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Postby CableCat » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:10 pm

The download is ready:
http://downloadthehell.cablecat.dk/THmusic_v3.6.rar

It is untested, but I think it is working.
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Postby Mordor » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:44 am

1.82f is uploaded

I'd like to test it online, there's a new MS fix there and it needs fieldesting

I'll be residing in Kali, and icq #302563839

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Postby CableCat » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:03 am

One can download v1.82f from the wiki now.
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Postby Sduibek » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:08 am

Rhaz wrote:Guys,You haven't read ghotiloki's post...this will make great strat for making SC'ed monsters as a "wall" to block other monsters or to buy you time killing other monsters as a mage,because at the moment too many monsters are immune to SC.
If this type of strategy is frustrating and somewhat helpful in Horror, why would it be good in Purg/Doom? I never tried to use SC as a "chanelling device" because it just seems cheap and annoying to me. Don't really understand using it like that, to me that was never the point of the spell at all.

As an aside, the ring spells are almost useless because of the bugged ToHit system in D1/HF code -- Mordor we talked on this in the Bugs thread, where getting hit doesn't happen at certain angles and movement directions. I have found rings to do very little :P I literally never use either of those spells, and in the end of Horror I never use Walls either. IMO all 5 of these spells need big overhauls to become useful...... especially in later game when so many monsters have immunities to Fire and Lightning.


Rhaz wrote:Remove immunes+making invincible on SC'ed monsters is a great balance.
No, all this does is pigeon-hole and limit the use of an already limited-use spell.


Rhaz wrote:Of course you think it sux because maybe you didn't notice just how many monsters are currently immune to SC,even in horror mode.
Um yeah, that's WHY it sucks. What's the point of trying to use spells for strategy that most monsters are immune to anyway. It's a frustrating waste of time usually.
Last edited by Sduibek on Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sduibek » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:11 am

Mordor wrote:Everything takes time. Major bugs are just main concern, something of higher priority.

Fixing just one bug can take a month. Fixing duping took ~2 years.

You get the idea?
Duping bug was being actively worked on for about 2 years?


EDIT: Hey I thought you said less often updates now that you are @ 1.82 dude. Seriously you lied! lol. Messing with our heads :-O :razz:
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Postby oli25 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:57 pm

It took me so long to download 1.82e and nows new one? Seriously, I don't know what's worse, getting new version per day or per few years (TD) :P
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Postby oli25 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:07 pm

So you have only midofied exe file since 1.82e? Why not release a patch then?
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Postby CableCat » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:41 pm

oli25 wrote:So you have only midofied exe file since 1.82e? Why not release a patch then?


Because then people might use that exe file with another version than 1.82e.

My suggestion is to make patches that are compatible with all version since 1.80, since little data has changed in THdata.mor. This can simply be done by making a THpatch.mor file, that contains the changes done to THdata.mor. Then all people need to do is to extract and overwrite as usual. This is exactly how panelz.mor works, should you still have from a previous version.
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Postby CableCat » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:58 am

To prove my point I have just made what I said:
http://downloadthehell.cablecat.dk/testing/TH182f.7z
[22:15: The download is now modified to reflect what I said later: uses the name THpatc.mor and includes everything except THdata.mor, final size 1.58MB]

The combined size is 1.45M, of these 461KB are the new data added to THdata.mor.

I don't have any items that uses graphics added since v1.80, so I don't have an easy way to test if it is working 100%. But I think it does.


What I did:

1) Extracted the content of THdata.mor from v1.80 and v1.82e into the dirs TH180 and TH182e.
Note: The content of THdata.mor should be the same in v1.82e and v1.82f.

2) From linux I ran these 2 commands, to create md5sum of all the files:
(cd TH180; find . | while read filename; do md5sum "$filename"; done > ../TH180.md5sum)
(cd TH182e; find . | while read filename; do md5sum "$filename"; done > ../TH182e.md5sum)

3) Made the dir TH180toTH182e/

4) Made the necessary dirs in TH180toTH182e and copied the new content in TH182e to it:
diff TH180.md5sum TH182e.md5sum | grep -E '^> ' | while read x x filename; do mkdir "TH180toTH182e/$(echo $filename|sed 's|/[^/]*/[^/]*$||')"; mkdir "TH180toTH182e/$(echo $filename|sed 's|/[^/]*$||')"; cp "TH182e/$filename" "TH180toTH182e/$filename"; done

5) Added the content of TH180toTH182e to the new mpq file TH182f.mor

6) Hex edited TH.exe in TH182f, and changed panelz.mor to TH182f.mor

7) Compressed the files in the TH182f release that was modified in 2009 to a .7z file. THdata.mor was not added, but the new TH182f.mor and modified TH.exe was.

Total time spend: 55 minnutes, including writing this message and uploading the file.
Last edited by CableCat on Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:52 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Postby Fuco » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:10 am

Game will recognize the new .mor file automatically? If so this is great.
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Postby CableCat » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:03 am

Fuco wrote:Game will recognize the new .mor file automatically? If so this is great.


I modified TH.exe and reused the entry for panelz.mor, so you cannot use that feature any more. The file panelz.mor allows you to change the the GUI back to Diablo style, with a blue mana blub.

I really wanted to name the file THpatch.mor, but since my hacking skilles are limited to a simple hex edit, I had to use a filename of the same length. Should you decide to use this idea, then I suggest naming the file THpatch.mor, and to remember that full releases must contain an empty THpatch.mor, so the old one is overwritten - or you can just use THpatch.mor for full releases too, by never editing THdata.mor, and just adding the new data to THpatch.mor.
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Postby CableCat » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:31 am

After thinking a little I suggest the following:

1) Use the name THpatc.mor, because it is then easy to modify previous versions.
2) All new data is added to THpatc.mor.
3) Provide the THdata.mor file from v1.80 as a separate download.
4) THdata.mor is not included in full releases.

Of cause this adds one more step for new players, who needs to download one more file. But all full releases will only be around 2MB!
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Postby CableCat » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:05 pm

I think there is a way to make the new multiplayer files backward compatible with previous versions:

In v1.82d Fuco replaced the computer name in the save files with a fixed one, and made a temporal exe file that read the real computer name, but saved with the fixed one.

In v1.82e Dragon removed the computer name check, so temporal exe file was unnecessary.

How about just removing the computer name check, but still use the real computer name when the character is saved, so the save files are backward compatible with previous versions?
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Postby Fuco » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:33 pm

No, it doesnt work that way :). Key is used for some complex hashing, you can't load a char without correct key. Key is NOT stored in save file as well.
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Postby CableCat » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:47 pm

I made this new page at the wiki: Experimental downloads
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Postby Fuco » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:19 pm

The THpatch idea is indeed great, has mordor said anything about it yet?


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Postby CableCat » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:29 pm

Fuco wrote:The THpatch idea is indeed great, has mordor said anything about it yet?


He has sadly just reject it, because it was too time consuming.

It is however easy for me to make a patch when I am making the install anyway.
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